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thinking? His genius decreases." Those who are indifferent would say: "He is exhausted." The hateful
would say: "He is dead."
Montesquieu: And they all would be right, because a modern publicist[3] has said with great
truthfulness: "Does one want to snatch men's rights from them? One must not do it half-way. That
which one leaves to them, serves to help them recover what one has taken away from them. The hand
that remains free disengages the other one from its irons."
Machiavelli: This is very well thought out; this is very true; I know that such a step would greatly
expose me. You see that one would have been unjust towards me, that I love liberty more than one will
have said. A little while ago, you asked me if I would abnegate, if I knew how to sacrifice myself for
my people, to step down from the throne if need be: now you have my response; I would step down in
martyrdom.
Montesquieu: You have softened. What liberties would you grant?
Machiavelli: Each year, upon the new year, I would allow my legislative chamber to testify to its
wishes in an address to me.
Montesquieu: But since the immense majority of the chamber would be devoted to you, what could
you gather if not thank-yous and testimonies of admiration and love?
Machiavelli: Yes, you are right. Would not such testimonies be natural?
Montesquieu: Are not all the liberties?
Machiavelli: But this first concession would be considerable, whatever you say. Nevertheless, I would
not limit myself to it. Today in Europe there is a spirited movement against centralization -- not among
the masses, but the enlightened classes. I would decentralize, that is to say, I would give to my
provincial governors the right to settle many of the small, local questions previously submitted to the
approval of my ministers.
Montesquieu: If the municipal element is not involved in this reform, you would only make tyranny
more unsupportable.
Machiavelli: Here indeed is the fatal haste of those who clamor for reform: one must take prudent
steps along the road to liberty. Nevertheless, I would limit myself: I would grant commercial liberty.
Montesquieu: You have already spoken of this.
Machiavelli: It is the industrial aspect that still concerns me: I would not want that my legislation --
due to an excess of distrust of the people -- proceeds as far as preventing them from providing for their
own subsistence. It is for this reason that I would present to the chambers laws that have as their object
slight departures from the provisions that prohibit association. Moreover, my government's tolerance
would render these measures perfectly useless and, since in the final analysis it would not be necessary
to disarm oneself, nothing in the laws would be changed, just the formulae of their redaction. Today,
one has deputies in the chambers who lend themselves very well to innocent stratagems.
Montesquieu: Is that all?
Machiavelli: Yes, because this would be much, perhaps even too much, but I believe I could reassure
myself: my army would be enthusiastic, my magistracy would be loyal, and my penal laws would
function with the regularity and precision of the all-powerful and terrible mechanisms that modern
science has invented.
Montesquieu: And so you would not touch the laws concerning the press?
Machiavelli: You would not want me to.
Montesquieu: Nor the municipal legislation?
Machiavelli: Would this be possible?
Montesquieu: Nor your suffrage-protection system?
Machiavelli: No.
Montesquieu: Neither the organization of the Senate, the organization of the Legislative Body, your
domestic system, your international system, your economic regime, nor your financial regime?
Machiavelli: I would only touch what I have mentioned to you. Properly speaking, I would have left
behind the period of terror and entered into one of tolerance; I could do so without danger; I could even
grant real liberty, because one would have to be quite denuded of political spirit to not recognize that, at
the imaginary moment that I have supposed, my legislation would have already borne all of its fruit. I
would have accomplished the goal that I announced to you: the character of the nation will have been
changed; the slight faculties that I would return will, for me, have been the probe with which I
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